Mr Redwood, you have not answered my question concerning the practicalities of the EU referendum which your leader proposed. I am not concerned at this time with the individual powers which he would seek to recover from the EU, as these can be debated at a later, more appropriate time.
I am concerned, however, with a central premise of the actual "deliverability" of such a referenda as proposed by Mr Cameron at all.
A simple 'in-or-out', 'status quo or withdrawal' referenda could be delivered at any time as both options are actually deliverable and obtainable.
We could hold such a plebiscite at any time and if the country voted to stay in the EU, then we would remain as we are today and be inevitably dragged, as demanded by the terms of the ratified treaties of the EU, into full integration in time.
If the country voted for withdrawal, the Government of the sovereign Parliament of the UK could invoke article 50 of Lisbon to withdraw from the EU and repeal the European Communities Act 1972 and we would become a free nation able to obtain our rights under the UN Charter to self-determination and we could have our own Independence Day to celebrate every year.
Currently, the hazy offer which Mr Cameron is using to attempt to trick UKIP voters into voting Conservative (for a party who will now spend 5 years campaigning to remain INSIDE and SUBJECT TO the EU), shows that Mr Cameron has not been entirely honest in revealing the attainability of what we would actually be voting on.
Let me explain my concern.
As I understand it, IF the conservative party wins a majority in the next Parliamentary elections in 2015, then a Cameron led Government would try to renegotiate the terms of our membership of the EU. Indeed, he even stated that the conservative party would be seeking a mandate at that election specifically to do that.
So, given that in incoming conservative government were elected to renegotiate Britain's relationship with the EU, then IF he is successful in that renegotiation, and gets everything he wants and we get a deal which would be the equivalent of the "Common Market" which we voted to remain in, back in 1975, what would happen in 2017, at the time of the referendum?
The situation would be one where Cameron has got a deal, BUT that deal would have to be written into a new treaty. That treaty would then have to be ratified by ALL 26 of the other EU member states.
The fact is, Mr Redwood, that you know, as well as I do, that there is no way that such a treaty would be ratified, by all member states, by the time of a British referendum in 2017.
It took 10 years, 3 failed referenda, renegotiation and another referenda for a constitutional treaty to be ratified as the Lisbon Reform Treaty.
So what will happen in 2017? Will Cameron indefinitely delay any such referenda UNTIL the amended relationship with the EU is codified in EU law through a fully ratified treaty and THEN give us the referendum? Because such a treaty may NEVER be ratified and then we would NEVER get the membership referendum, leading to further charges of betrayal and broken promises.
Or will we get a referendum in 2017 on a treaty position which could be rejected by any one of the other EU states, which would render OUR referendum outcome moot, (should we all vote to stay inside such a renegotiated EU membership)? And what would be the outcome then? Would we then withdraw from the EU? Or would we be dragged into the fully integrated EU as the position currently stands under the terms of Lisbon?
We need to know the answer to this before the next general election, Mr Redwood. Otherwise Mr Cameron's promise of an 'in or out' referendum (on a reformed EU) is grossly dishonest. IF he cannot actually deliver a reformed EU, will we get a vote or not? Will we remain inside the EU? Or will we withdraw from it?
Mr Redwood, you are one of a very few conservative MP's I have any time or respect for at all. Please do me the courtesy of a reply with an answer to this central and crucial question which cuts to the heart of any credibility of such a referendum promise by Mr Cameron.
Thank You for your time.
Thursday, January 31, 2013
Wednesday, January 23, 2013
Cameron's sneaky trap!
So there we have it. Cameron is going to offer us an In or Out referendum on our EU membership is he?
Well no, not exactly.
There are a lot of caveats before we can assume that we are going to get our right, as given by the UN, to self-determination in our once great, free and independent nation.
1, Will Cameron even be Prime Minister in 2017? Very Unlikely. So we will most likely end up with Miliband as Prime Minister and so what his position on an EU referendum is more valid at this stage.
2. IF in the incredibly unlikely event that Cameron's promise of a referendum pursuades enough anti-EU non-voters to give him a win in 2015, he then will begin negotiating a new relationship.This new relationship will require 26 other EU member states to ratify this position. It is next to impossible to imagine that Belgium, or France, Or Greece, or Spain, or Poland, or even Bulgaria will not veto our dream of a much looser EU which will uniquely benefit the UK. Getting ALL 26 to ratify a treaty beneficial to the UK is simply cloud cuckoo land.
3. IF in the incredibly unlikely event that Cameron's promise of a referendum persuades enough anti-EU non-voters to give him a win in 2015 and IF in the even less likely event that all 26 other member states would agree to ratify a new relationship, there is NO WAY that such an Treaty would be ratified by 2017.
It took 10 years to eventually ratify the much less contentious Constitutional Treaty which became the Lisbon Reform Treaty. It is an impossibility to have all 26 other member states ratify a new treaty giving a beneficial position in the EU to the UK by 2017. IMPOSSIBLE!
This is why this is a sneaky trap.
Cameron, the BBC, the establishment will attempt to trick the country into the same lie as in 1975, all over again. There will be so much propaganda and lies about losing our trade, losing influence, losing everything, by voting to get out of the EU, and that our renegotiated position is even better than independence. They will lie all over again that we will retain our Sovereignty, our independence and our freedoms.
Will we fall for those 1975 lies all over again?
They will try to trick the British People into voting for a "common market" all over again, and then, once the British People have voted "IN", they will be trapped in. Because THEN the other member states will reject our renegotiation and we will be STUCK!
It is a trap!
Cameron has avoided saying what would be the position if the other EU member states either (A) fail to ratify our position by the referendum, or B Reject it after our referendum.
This is why it is a trap.
Well no, not exactly.
There are a lot of caveats before we can assume that we are going to get our right, as given by the UN, to self-determination in our once great, free and independent nation.
1, Will Cameron even be Prime Minister in 2017? Very Unlikely. So we will most likely end up with Miliband as Prime Minister and so what his position on an EU referendum is more valid at this stage.
2. IF in the incredibly unlikely event that Cameron's promise of a referendum pursuades enough anti-EU non-voters to give him a win in 2015, he then will begin negotiating a new relationship.This new relationship will require 26 other EU member states to ratify this position. It is next to impossible to imagine that Belgium, or France, Or Greece, or Spain, or Poland, or even Bulgaria will not veto our dream of a much looser EU which will uniquely benefit the UK. Getting ALL 26 to ratify a treaty beneficial to the UK is simply cloud cuckoo land.
3. IF in the incredibly unlikely event that Cameron's promise of a referendum persuades enough anti-EU non-voters to give him a win in 2015 and IF in the even less likely event that all 26 other member states would agree to ratify a new relationship, there is NO WAY that such an Treaty would be ratified by 2017.
It took 10 years to eventually ratify the much less contentious Constitutional Treaty which became the Lisbon Reform Treaty. It is an impossibility to have all 26 other member states ratify a new treaty giving a beneficial position in the EU to the UK by 2017. IMPOSSIBLE!
This is why this is a sneaky trap.
Cameron, the BBC, the establishment will attempt to trick the country into the same lie as in 1975, all over again. There will be so much propaganda and lies about losing our trade, losing influence, losing everything, by voting to get out of the EU, and that our renegotiated position is even better than independence. They will lie all over again that we will retain our Sovereignty, our independence and our freedoms.
Will we fall for those 1975 lies all over again?
They will try to trick the British People into voting for a "common market" all over again, and then, once the British People have voted "IN", they will be trapped in. Because THEN the other member states will reject our renegotiation and we will be STUCK!
It is a trap!
Cameron has avoided saying what would be the position if the other EU member states either (A) fail to ratify our position by the referendum, or B Reject it after our referendum.
This is why it is a trap.
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